Trauma Informed Parenting: Support Children with Emotional Problems | Episode 81

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Megan M. Hamm, a licensed professional counselor and registered play therapist, discusses trauma-informed therapy and mental health awareness, particularly for children. She emphasizes the importance of understanding children's behaviors as forms of communication rather than manipulation. Megan shares her journey from a childhood passion for teaching to a career in psychology, driven by a pivotal experience in third grade. She advocates for a trauma-informed approach, suggesting that consistent, nonjudgmental responses can foster resilience. Megan also addresses the complex issue of corporal punishment, recommending alternative strategies and emphasizing the need for parents to reflect on their intentions and responses.

Transcript

TD Flenaugh: 0:00

Welcome everyone to the Falling for Learning Podcast. So glad that you've joined us today. We have a special guest today to really talk about what we can do to support children that have trauma, what are some ways that we can make it fun, engaging and help them to heal at the same time and recognize those signs, because some of us have children that are facing or dealing with a lot emotionally, and we don't even know and so you want to like subscribe and sit in and enjoy this conversation. Hi. Thank you so much for joining the following for learning podcast. We have this podcast to help parents and caregivers with having the resources, strategies and tools needed to make sure that their children are on track for learning and to stay on track for success. Okay, so our special guest today is Megan M Hamm, so she is a licensed professional counselor and a registered play therapist. She has over 16 years working in mental health, and she's also an Amazon Best selling author who shows dedication to nurturing Individual and Family Well Being through innovative therapeutic practices at her Mississippi based practice time for a change counseling. Megan specializes in play therapy, trauma and parent child relationships, providing transformative care for children, adolescents and adults beyond therapy, she advocates passionately for mental health awareness, particularly within the African American community, and serves on several boards and organizations. Megan's latest book, The heart of the matter, a compassionate approach to transforming behaviors in foster and adoptive children reflects her commitment to empowering families to overcome generational trauma and foster resilience. Thank you so much for joining us today. Megan ham, how are you doing?

Megan M. Hamm: 2:24

Thank you so much. I'm doing well, and thank you for having me on your podcast today.

TD Flenaugh: 2:30

Alright, so tell us a little bit. We're in the new year. This is just like this. You know, a couple weeks in, how's it going so far with your new year.

Megan M. Hamm: 2:42

This new year really is going well. I can say that one of my goals was, is consistency. And so I have a couple goals that I'm working on, and I have consistently did something toward those goals every day. So I'm excited about that, and I'm excited to keep it going, and being able to put myself in a position where I can create the goal, you know, Write the vision, make it plain, but also make the consistent small steps to see the bigger goal come to pass.

TD Flenaugh: 3:14

That is so cool, right? Exactly, consistency, I think underlying everyone's like, you know, their New Year's resolution, there is that part of whatever that goal is, consistency is part of that, right? Yeah, awesome. Okay, so we know you are an expert in mental health and and treating that. Can you tell us when you as a child, like, what was it that really got you into learning? Because obviously you have to, you know, be good at studying or be interested in this area. So what was it that just got you into learning in general as a kid?

Megan M. Hamm: 3:58

I think for me, I think about an experience I had with my nine times tables. So I was in the third grade, and I had, I was a very I hate to say I was a smart kid, but things came really easy to me in school. I'm gonna say that so I can sit in the classroom, I can hear the work, I can hear the teacher, and then I could, you know, I could bring it back out on the test. But my nine times tables, I didn't do that. And so I failed the test for my nine times table. I missed my recess. It was the third grade I remember vividly. It was the first time I ever one failed a test, and two missed my recess. And so in that we had to stay in and we had to write our nine timetable over and over and over again. And when I went back to take the test, of course, I passed the test. And so I think now looking back, that was the moment where I realized that there was this concept called learning. It wasn't just about sending the class for. Women listening, but actually applying myself to reach a goal. And I think the third grade was the first time that that was it happened. But of course, when I was in the third grade, it didn't make sense then, but now, as an adult, we can look back and say, Hey, that was the moment, um, third grade, my nine times tables when I failed that test.

TD Flenaugh: 5:21

Oh, I love that. I mean, you're really talking about like, making that transition from just like doing things easily and then putting in the effort to make something happen, wonderful, having

Megan M. Hamm: 5:32

to, having to work for it. Yep, first time, well, maybe not the first time in life, but that I can vividly remember, especially as,

TD Flenaugh: 5:41

Wow. Okay, so tell us about some activities or interest you had as a child that led to your current work today as a licensed professional counselor.

Megan M. Hamm: 5:55

You know, when I was a when I was a kid, I definitely was always I like to be around other children, and I like to play a lot, even to the point where I always I was going to be a teacher. That was my true passion. I was the, you know, little known fact, when I was a teenager in the summertime in Mississippi, I would get, I would get all of my little cousins, all of my younger cousins. And we had a minivan and I would go, and I would go pick everybody up, like school bus and sometimes, and we would play school and we would do, like regular stuff. We would do Bible based activities, but we would do, like, just school work, and they were seven, eight years younger than me, and so I was, I didn't now, as an adult, I realized why my aunts were so excited about me coming to get their kids for the day, right? But then I was like, oh, everybody's supporting. Because my aunts would buy snacks, and we would have all kind of food and snacks. It was just everybody was so supportive. And so I had my younger cousins, and we would play school, and I would be the teacher. And so I always my passion was to be a teacher, until I took a class my 12th grade year in high school. I took psychology, and we went to we did a field trip in this class, and we went to a college campus to their psychology department, and I fell in love with learning about behavior, human behavior, and kind of what made people tick. And so that's when I decided not to do education, but to go into psychology. So that was that was my role to mental health. Was taking that psychology class because I knew I was going to be a teacher. That was my calling. I was going to help the kids, I was going to teach, and it just but now I get to teach on a different level, right? So it all kind of circles back to what I do today, but it definitely that's how it started.

TD Flenaugh: 8:02

Wow. Okay, that's amazing. Wow. So as we're thinking about your story and all of that, like, what, like, what really is something that people get wrong when it comes to, like, mental health awareness, like, what is it that you notice that people are getting wrong about kids or even themselves?

Megan M. Hamm: 8:33

I think the thing, the one thing that I say, that I have a conversation about consistently, um, especially with kids, is that they're doing it on purpose, and that they're trying to manipulate the adult or manipulate the situation. A lot of times when children are having behaviors or they are acting out as adults, we feel like they shouldn't. They know better, because you didn't do this Monday, you didn't do this Tuesday, so why you cutting up Wednesday? Right? So we start to think that it's intentional behavior. Um, I really come from a place when it comes to when it comes to children and behaviors and mental health. I come from the place of that behavior is really a kid's way of communicating when there's a need that's not being met, and so

TD Flenaugh: 9:23

let me pause you. So those kids where we might be like, this is just a bad kid, or this kid, you know, that's just how they are. This is something we're getting wrong.

Megan M. Hamm: 9:40

You know, I really don't, I would agree that we're getting it wrong. I don't believe in bad kids, right? Because if I believe in bad kids, then I have to believe in bad adults, right? Um, but I really feel like there's, there's some kids who have a hard time to. Getting their needs met in a way that we see here we go, a way that society accepts right? Because if we look at it, if we look at things that we we typically, most of the things that we do or that we expect are based upon somebody else's standard. And if we were to acknowledge that, acknowledge that, okay, I'm expecting this child to act this certain way, um, I always implore and those adults to say, okay, where does that come from? Where did that start for you? Where did that expectation? Where was that expectation created that this is the right or wrong way to do or the right or wrong way to behave, or the right or wrong way to act?

TD Flenaugh: 10:49

Okay, so an example of where we are measuring a reaction or an action in a way that we could look at it from a different point of view.

Megan M. Hamm: 11:06

So let's say that you have a child who goes to school, and let's say they go to school that morning and they were really expecting the cafeteria paper said that they were going to have pancakes for breakfast and the but the cafeteria didn't have pancakes. So it gets to the cafeteria, and all they had was cereal, right? So they were expecting the pancakes, excited about the pancakes, but they got cereal for breakfast, but they were fed. So then they get to their first period class, they get to their get to their teacher, and they're upset, and they're having a bad day, and it's like, the teacher's like, hey, put your book sack down. And it's like, I don't want to, right? And we're like, you just came to school. You just, you know, why are you acting like this already? Just Just follow the directions. Yes, because all the other kids are doing what I told them to do, and you're not right, and so the kid that's not doing it becomes the outlier. Yes, even in all of that, most kids, let's just, let's just say this is a second grader. Most second graders are not going to be able to say, well, Miss Megan. I'm disappointed, because I was expecting pancakes this morning for breakfast, and all the cafeteria had was frosted plate. And although I love frosted plate, that wasn't what I had wanted to eat this morning. And so now I'm disappointed. And so my disappointment comes out. And you're telling me to do something, and I'm saying, No, I don't want to do it. And the thing about that is being in the in the classroom, if that behavior, if that instance, is an address being, and a teacher takes it as, Oh, you just aren't you don't want to listen. Oh, it's going to be that kind of day or this kind of mood you're in. And of course, as a not, of course, as adults, but as adults, we tend to match that. We tend to match that energy. And I'm the authority, right? Because I'm the authority, because I told you to do what I needed you to do, right? Yeah, and do it. You're not going to make my day harder, because everybody else can do it. So why won't you just do it? I'm not doing insult

TD Flenaugh: 13:13

you today,

Megan M. Hamm: 13:14

not today, right? Today? Yeah. And so when the thing about it is, if that's not addressed in that moment, if it's not something that we investigate in that moment, um, if that's not something that we lean into, it definitely can become a power struggle throughout the day.

TD Flenaugh: 13:31

Wow. So what's your suggestion? Because you're giving us a classroom example, right? We do have home parents as well. They they have the time to take or, you know, daycare workers, or people are dealing with several kids, like, what is, what's the what are some just suggestions.

Megan M. Hamm: 13:53

So my suggestion is, for us, with that story that I told you, it's, it's easier for us to understand it, because we know the back story, right? So if we knew that he wanted pancakes and he wasn't able to get it, and that's why he was feeling disappointed, so that's why I was coming out, and how he was acting, then we can necessarily get on his level and say, hey, I can understand that pancakes were not an option this morning. I can understand how disappointed you are, and we can help them work through that. The reality is we don't always know the back story, and so if I choose to teach, if I choose to approach behavior as if there's an unmet need, then I always go from the approach that something has happened, I always go to from the approach that, you know, we are all going through something, and that is, that's the trauma informed approach that we often right now people are throwing around. You know, trauma is a buzzword. Trauma Informed is a buzzword. You know, the reality is, for me. Trauma informed simply means that I go through stuff on a daily basis, so I know that you go through stuff on a daily basis, and I choose to show you grace. I don't assume the worst when you and I have an interaction that doesn't line up with what I need from you in this moment. And so if that happens,

TD Flenaugh: 15:19

let's just pause there like that. I think we just need to let that sink in, like the trauma informed way is really coming, not from okay, this kid is giving me a problem again today, or I just met this kid, and this kid obviously is going to be a problem, right? But instead thinking this kid is having some kind of challenge, something happened, and we need to figure out what that challenge is so that we can help them move forward in a productive way.

Megan M. Hamm: 15:53

Yeah, and I think that's a that's a big part of it. One of the things that I do differently in my practice is I don't, and I tell parents this from the beginning. If they don't have to tell me the story, I don't have to know the why, to meet you where you are, to give you grace. Right? A lot of times in our society, we feel as a as an individual, we feel more comfortable when we know the why, right. Think about if you interacted with somebody who a kid who just lost their mom, we show them a lot of grace in the classroom. Let's just be real. We do we show them a lot of grace, we give them a lot of support. We give them a lot of resources, because we know they just lost their mom, or they had a big loss. Let's say we have a kid that's dealing with something just as big in their life that we don't know about. We don't always offer them the same grades. My, my, I implore people, let's just offer everybody the grace as if they just had a big loss, because we may not know the thing that they're dealing with. Okay, so it doesn't mean

TD Flenaugh: 17:03

we're gonna go into a break and we will get into it. Okay, all over the United States, 75% of children don't know how to write. Well, add that to the fact that so many people out there are trying to silence the voices of those who have been oppressed and trying to prevent them from telling their story. Who's going to tell your story if your child doesn't know how to write? Well, I have two books to address this issue, the rewrite method and the rewrite method workbook pretend to make sure that parents know what to do, that educators know what to do to get their children to write better and just not write better, but love to write. Make sure that your next generation could tell their story and they won't be silenced. Go to falling for learning.com today to purchase your set. Okay, we're back such important gems being dropped right now by Megan ham, alright, like just really changing that perspective. Um, so, you know, we kind of had a little break there. Can you take us back to, you know, if someone has, we know, they just had a big loss. We give them a lot of person, we gotta give them a lot of grace. And then how we could shift the perspective to giving everyone that grace. Because, of course, we don't know what's going on with everybody.

Megan M. Hamm: 18:32

And so one of the things that I definitely feel like I approach life, and I approach people, and I teach my parents this as well, being able to give grace. And I say give grace, but what I really mean is being very intentional in the words that we use when we're talking to our kids, when we're talking to other kids about just some of the things, even if it's their behavior, we can, we can directly address a child's behavior and be intentional in the words that we use, that we don't add additional shame and guilt to what happened, um, a lot. And when I'm working with parents, I tell them, let's say your child did get in trouble, let's let's say your child had a big behavior and, oh, they were at home. I've been at home my kids, you know, it's been the break, so you've been at home with me, right? Um, so let's get into the fact that sometimes my, even my kids, have big behaviors. That doesn't mean that. The other day, we were at home and I had redirected my daughter. I wouldn't even say, redirect it. I told her to get up and get a room clean, you know? So, hey, we're at home, we're we're chilling, but I'm like, Hey, let's go on to get this this room clean. And she got up, and she was huffing and puffing and storming. I'm look, I'm thinking like, oh, because I asked you to get your room clean Right, right? My first response, honestly, my initial thought was, why is she playing with me? But then I had to realize. That was a me. Thing had nothing to do with her, and her intention was not to play with me, right? Her intention was, I'm sitting well, I can't say what her intention was, but I'm sitting here, we're watching this TV show, and in the middle of me doing nothing, you're asking me to do something. So what I've learned to do even with my own kids, it's, I give them that adjustment period, right? I give them time to adjust to what I'm asking them to do. It's not like, Oh, you got to get up, right? Now, I remember, you know, in past generations when, when the adult called your name, you should already be up and on your way to them, you don't even know what they're asking you yet. And so we come from that mindset of you are a child, when I call your name, why are you not on your way? And so I have to in my household, I have to let go of that, because for me, that was seen as a way of trying to be in control and trying to be and having the power. And I realized that my power doesn't come in the way I my power doesn't come and how I what I say, but how I choose to respond to my kids and to just things that are going on. And so one of the things I always encourage parents is your words. Be very intentional with your words. What are the things that, course, things.

TD Flenaugh: 21:17

This is a paradigm shift you want parents to, you know, break that thing, whereas I get up and go when I say it, don't question, it, don't have an attitude. And so instead, an adjustment period. So would it be like, Okay, after we watch this show, I want us to get up and clean, you know, I need to get up and clean the room now.

Megan M. Hamm: 21:47

Yeah, it could be. And it depends, it depends on your child, because some kids do better with, um, after we watch this show, we'll get up and we'll clean up. Some children do better with, hey, I need this clean by a certain time. I'm saying as mom, before we lay our head down at 930 tonight, the expectation is your room is clean. Some children work better in that having that autonomy and having the freedom to do it as they choose. My kids, on the other hand, it's more like, let's go on to get it done when you first get up, because they sometimes. Some kids have a hard time transitioning and adjusting. And you have to know that about the kids that you're working with, whether it's your kid at home, some kids do well with playing and then coming in and getting their work done. Some kids, if you let them go outside and play, when they come in, they're not going to want to get their work done, so they may have to get the work done first and play as the incentive to get it done. So it's really just knowing your kid, and I think with words, adjusting how you say it, not just saying it from, hey, I'm Mom, I'm the authority. I say, get it done. Get it done. You get it figured out. But going from the perspective of, hey, you know, for my kids, I did have to go back and say, Megan, we are in the middle of a TV show. So why did that just cross your mind in that moment? Right? Because, if we're being honest, sometimes as the adults, we can be the trigger, right? Because we we could have waited 15 minutes to show it off. But there was something in my mind, in that moment, like, Man, this, these rooms gotta get clean, um, and in those times I do, I am at the place where I will go and say, You know what? We can wait till the show goes off. That's fine. And I also help my kids to understand it's not because you responded the way you responded. Because I don't want you to think that because you started storming off that I changed my mind. But what I want you to know is that I realize that we can't wait till the show goes off. I think that's an important piece as well, because a lot of things that we do in life and children is learned behavior. I don't want my kids to think that if I ask them to do something, they get up and start storming off. Then right after that, I changed my mind. Then they're going to connect that. Oh, I could just throw em off, and she going to, she going to change your mind, yes. And so that's the importance of using our words too, as adults to say, hey, you know what? Now that I've thought about it, it's not because of how you responded, but now that I thought about it, that is something that could wait the next couple minutes.

TD Flenaugh: 24:22

Okay, but tell me, how do you deal with that response, though? Like, I understand you're saying it's not because of that response. But what do I say? Like, you know, trying to be handle it in a healthier way, a more productive way. What do I say about the huffing, huffing and all that.

Megan M. Hamm: 24:42

Yeah, so that's a good one, right? Because for parents or adults working with children, it's oftentimes seen as disrespectful, right? Um, one of the the when I'm working with parents, one of the first things that I work with parents on you. Is we talk about their personal but because ultimately, I can't control what some how somebody else chooses to respond, and I have let go of the need to try to control or try to have power over somebody else's behavior. The only thing I can control is how I respond. And so in my household, we set an expectation, right? And so the expectation is, like, I don't allow my kids to. I'm not going to say I allow my kids to. It's weird, because I don't allow my kids to be disrespectful. Like, we don't go in there. They're not cussing me, or they're not being disrespectful, right? But when my child has a response like that, I allow her time to adjust with my words, I will say, hey, that that maybe didn't have to be the response you had to me asking you to do something. I allow them to adjust, but I know my personal buttons for me. That doesn't bother me, but slamming the door, oh, that gets me unraveled, right? That'll unravel me fast if you slam a door. Um, so I think the first thing I would definitely tell parents is being able to be aware of their own personal buttons, but also to already have the expectation in place and be able to redirect without the emotion. So if I allow,

TD Flenaugh: 26:18

you're just saying so you're saying because I'm like, my mind is just going, as you're talking, like, not to have a control or power, like, well, as a parent, right? We supposed to have the control pros, have the power, um, but you, you know, you're addressing some of that. But one of the things that I'm hearing is, you know, what's your personal button and be expected, right? Expect my kids going to slam the door. I don't like that, so how am I going to handle it in a productive way? Right? Because, of course, I slam the door, you, you know, yell at me or whatever, like it's just escalating, right? Um, so, like, gotta have a moment to sit with these things, because it's like, no, I'm in control. I'm empowered, right? And so it takes a moment to kind of think about and adjust these things, right? Because, yes, if you are slamming the door, and my response, that's my personal button, right? Like you were saying, and and my response is just like, over the top, or I'm going off, you know, it's gonna, it's gonna get bad, right? Um, but preparing for that ahead of time, like, if they slam the door, do you tell your kid that's your personal button? Like, look, don't, don't slam the door. Makes me so mad. Or, like, what do you

Megan M. Hamm: 27:49

and the thing is, my kid, I have a conversation with my kids, and I teach parents. It's about having a conversation to say, hey, we can go through all of the words in the dictionary. Like, for me, personally, words do not bother me. They're not many words my kids can say that will push my button because words don't bother me, and it may be partly because I'm a therapist, and so I hear all kind of stuff every day too, but I understand that's my personal parenting button is slamming the door, and I let them know, Hey, we can do all of this. Slamming the door is out the question, we're not going to slam the door. And if they slam the door, there's a there's an expectation to not slam the door, and there's a consequence if they do that, I have completely taken myself out of because there's nothing wrong with as a parent, when I find myself getting upset or if we're in this power struggle, you know, sometimes I can get to the point where I recognize I'm in that power struggle, and I step away, I do the thing that I'm trying to teach my kid to do, right? I will say, You know what? We're going to put a pause in it. I'm going to take a break, and I go take me some deep breaths, and we'll come back to it. But a lot of times taking a break is seen as I've lost, or I'm giving up, or there's a weakness involved. And as parents, when we're in the middle of something like that, we don't want the kid to think that they won. And so a lot of this, you know, one of the things that I work with is when I'm talking to people and I'm like, Oh, it's a lot of it's a lot about what the parent is doing, because ultimately, that's the only, the only person we can control in any situation is who. Yes, it's ourselves. And the thing is, we teach our kids that, you know, we teach our kids in the classroom or at school, and they'll be like, well, somebody said something to me, or I hear kids say all the time, well, the reason I got in trouble because he hit me first and I hit him back, or he said something to make me mad, so I felt like I was justified in being mad and real quick to say, Hey, you can't control what other people say and do. You can only control yourself. But that's the same thing when we grow up. It's the same thing when we grow up and become. Parents, you know, I can't my behavior and my presence and my responses can influence my kids behaviors, but me just standing there and whooping them all day, or me standing there and yelling all day is not what's making them stop the behavior. Because if that was the Do you like, what

TD Flenaugh: 30:20

do you like? What do you what do you think about? Like, corporal punishment, whooping, all that. Like, is that something that is like? I know, like, some give me your thoughts. I don't know.

Megan M. Hamm: 30:33

So I firmly believe, and this is just in life. So I believe that we anything that we choose to do if we are doing it from a place of heal, from being healed, and not from a place of being hurt. I'm not the person to judge your action, right? I'm never going to tell a parent not to whoop their child or to whoop their child when it comes to whooping. I definitely, you know, come from the perspective of, you know, I offer suggestions, but I don't necessarily tell people what to do and what not to do in their own home. Um, but whenever any thing that you do when it comes to parenting or whatever it is, I come from the perspective of, are you doing it from a place of being healed? Are you coming from a place of being hurt? And what is your intention behind the behavior? If we lived our life trying to figure out why we do the things that we do and what makes us tick that it would it would probably change 79% of things that we do. 79% is so random. It's not research based. It's just my thoughts. But um, a lot of times, especially when parents come in, they're telling me that they are whooping. They're like they are consistent. I talk to parents who you know, they're finding themselves whooping their children on a daily basis, or they're finding themselves they're whooping the kid, and then grandma's whooping the kid, and the kid is getting multiple whoopings a day. And I asked them,

TD Flenaugh: 31:58

hold on, so the whooping style as a therapist, I know, like, you know, you're probably a mandated reporter. Am I right?

Megan M. Hamm: 32:07

I am. I'm a mandated reporter. So

TD Flenaugh: 32:11

I like that you're saying that people can talk about because I feel like that's another barrier to like black people going to therapy, because of them are within their children. And then certain therapists this automatic, like, I'm calling your whooping kids, right? And so, but I know that there's a limit, right? There's, like, because, of course, we know that there's a spectrum of whooping. I could just pop your hand, right? Yeah, I could, you know, pop that, but a couple times, you know, you could have, like, a wooden spoon, extension cord, like, I don't know, like, what, where is it that you have to report? Because I know there are sometimes you have to report, but me just saying I'm with my kid or something, you know, and you understand the culture a little better as an African American woman, so what? Where's that line?

Megan M. Hamm: 33:06

And I honestly, well, we go into detail. So I definitely ask them to explain and most of the point when I'm asking them to explain it, I'm going to see their responses and what they're doing versus what the kid is doing. And so if a parent is telling me that they're getting a belt and they're whooping their kids, that's not anything I need to report to DHS. But you can't sit here and tell me, Well, you know, I had the belt and he bowled up and I had to box him down like, you know, we're not that conversation. We have it but, or that's a different conversation we're having. But one of the things I encourage my parents is, if you have consistently, if you felt like you've had to whoop this child since he was three, now he's eight, if you had to whoop him every day, give me 30 days with no whooping, and you do something different that I'm asking you to do, and we'll see. If let's see, we'll see a difference. Because right now, I tip of all the time, clearly, daily whoopings ain't working because you wouldn't have to do it every day, right? If this was something that was effective, we wouldn't be having to do it every day, several times a day. So let's try something. We've tried that for the last two, three years. We've tried it. It hadn't worked as well as we wanted to so let's, let's try something else. And I think typically, when I come from that perspective of it, a lot of times I've seen where parents will not choose, they won't choose the whoop and the physical discipline as the primary okay. Now sometimes I do have to get with parents, and have to be real, real honest about why, you know, and say, Hey, you're whooping them not because of something they're doing, but because you're frustrated. And that's how you take power back in your household. It's the physical discipline of it. And I've had conversation with parents too, and this is a this is topic that people don't want to talk about, but it is what it. Is right. And I've said, if you came home and your spouse told you that you got you got rolled up at work today because you didn't do something at work, and their response was, I'm going to whoop you so that you don't do that behavior tomorrow at school. Would that be appropriate? So at what age? At what age does the power struggle stop? You know, the people like, oh, that's different. How we have one person that is using physical discipline to stop a behavior in another person. What makes it different? And a lot of times people, and I've had people like, no, that's not the same thing. I want to talk about. That's fine. We don't have to talk about it. All I'm talking about is one person using physical discipline to stop a behavior in somebody else, right? Let's take away the age. Let's take away the relationship. Let's talk about the behavior. And so for me, I definitely have conversations. I've had to have conversations with parents about because it's hard to build a relationship. Now, the therapeutic part of it is it's hard to build a trusting relationship with somebody that you are physically hitting that you are physically because at the end of the day, the whooping hurt. That's the purpose of them, is to inflict the pain, right? The purpose is not to teach you. The purpose is not I'm whooping you because I love you, I love you, and I want you to do better, and so I'm doing what I know, what I think is going to work and going to make you do better, okay? But the reality is that's still physically hurting somebody, yes, um, so, Mm, hmm,

TD Flenaugh: 36:38

so, so, bringing it back. I'm feeling a little relief, right? I'm feeling a little okay, because what I'm hearing is, if I'm a parent whooping my child, I can tell you as my therapist, and you're not automatically going to call, you know, Child Protective Services or, you know, whatever they call it in your state or area. But you want to get to the root of the issue. You want to talk about, what's happening. You're going to work with me to figure out, like, what else can be done that's effective in getting your child to improve. We're going to talk about, you know, different perspectives relationships, and so I'm feeling a little relief, because I just hear this as a barrier over and over and over again, like, therapists are going to turn you in for using physical corporal punishment against your Kid, which is very normal. Like, that's what people do in black households, or, you know, and not even just black households, a lot of households, right, you know? And so you're not saying, like, automatically you shouldn't do that. You are talking through and talking about effective, talking about building relationship. So I feel a little relief, right? Because I feel like it's so hard, like I don't want to get help, because I don't want to be reported on, right? But I do need help, but am I going to lose my kids? Right? So that's a that's such a real threat in black families. And we know like statistics are like black families, black mothers or whatever, parents are more likely to get their kids removed in certain situations. Um, but I don't know. I just had to like that just feels so much better. And

Megan M. Hamm: 38:36

I'm glad you said that, because that's definitely a PERS, I guess, a perspective that because, I guess because I am a black therapist, and because I am in private practice, a lot of times when people come to me, a lot of that fear has already just been because we've talked already on the phone about things like during the consultation. So I think what happens is a lot of those barriers have already been we've already broke down some of those barriers. So I think I might even do a training on whooping. What is the what are the legal implications? Like, when does it become aggressive? Too much? Um, because a lot of times parents don't understand that. I'm I'm not going to tell you not to my job is not to tell you what to do is to educate you on the implications of what you are doing. And as a parent, child relationship expert, my job is to help you understand why you're doing it. It's not about what the kid done. I want to know what drove you to the point where you felt like that was your that was the next option for you, because if you are making that decision from a well informed, educated point, then who am I to take that away from you? But nine times out of 10, once I educate parents on it, and once we have those conversations, they I, I. If I could, I, you know, I've never, I've done, not done the research on it, but most of my parents, I've never had a parent come back and say, I've done everything you said, and I still have to whoop them every day. Okay? I've never had a parent come tell me yet. Now, I have had a parent. I have had a parent or two who was like, this is foolish. This is this fool stuff you talking about. And they kind of, you know, they all, they'll, they don't want to do the parent consultations as much. It's like, I need you to fix him. I need you to fix them. And honestly, those parents don't stay in therapy for long with me, because after I've seen the kid, and then it's time to do parent consultation, and you cancel. Oh, I can't. I don't need to see him. I need to see you like you. Let me know when your schedule is available, and we'll make it work. Okay,

TD Flenaugh: 40:50

so this is what it is. Okay. I mean that I can't just expect you to fix my child. You're not the child mechanic. That's the not what we do. You can't just fix my child. I need to do some reflection. I need to do some work. I need to, you know, work on my communication, or my tactics, my techniques. So it's not just, I'm going to drop your kid off or whatever, an hour every week they're going to get better. She fixed it. It's really about working together and and also, what you're saying is I, some of it is about your individual child. So again, it's not like just read it in a book, follow this manual. Okay, so I love I feel like so much relief. You know, my daughter is grown now, but definitely we've had some situations. I had her in counseling. I did have somebody report on me, like, everything came out. Okay, it's scary. So it is scary, and I understand why people don't want to get help, like I've articulate, there's a lot of things about me, right, that I things came out okay for me, right? But I know that some people, it doesn't, and I just I understand, right? And so I so much for coming to our show, helping us out, helping us to think about things, talk about your approach. It's so important. So where can people find you? I know you have your book, we're gonna we have the link in the show notes for your book so we could buy that and what else like. Where can we find you, on social media and all of those things,

Unknown: 42:45

yeah, well, on Facebook, I'm Megan Hamm. On Facebook, that is my name, so that's where I am, and then I have a bit my Time for A Change Counseling has a business page on Facebook where we shared some mental health tips and just resources and just different ways of being able to support not not only your own mental health growth, but how do you support family members or support others that you may know with that, with mental health awareness, I'm also on Instagram and Tiktok as Megan ham, LPC, Hamm is two Ms.

TD Flenaugh: 43:21

Okay, so it's all the links are all in the show notes so we can get in contact with Megan and so it sounds like you have some parent consultations ahead of time. So yeah, a link to schedule as well. Or Well, this is the question, Are you like online, or you just in Mississippi?

Megan M. Hamm: 43:42

No, so I only practice in Mississippi. I do do, I do virtual, but you have to be in Mississippi. But what I do offer is I also offer parent coaching, and so if it is outside of therapy, what I do is I use the book as a basis to work with parents on how are we really navigating these meltdowns? And part of it is we talk about your responses, especially the beginning, we talk about you and your responses and what that means to you, and then we get into the behavior of the child. Because just like communication, they say 90% of communication is non verbal. I think that 90% of parenting is the parent's response to the child's behavior, not always what the kid is doing, but how we respond to it, right? Yes, yeah. And so that's my that's how I see life, that's how I view it. And so I do parent coaching, but I also do training consultation to organizations that work with parents, foster parents, adopt the parents, to help staff and help other parents understand just different ways of coping with meltdowns. Love

TD Flenaugh: 44:52

it. Okay. So again, thanks for joining the Falling for Learning Podcast. Thanks for watching out there you. Got value, like, subscribe right and do something today that your future adult children will thank you for thanks again for supporting the falling for learning podcast, new episodes go live every Saturday at 5pm you can watch us on youtube.com at falling for learning, or listen on all major podcast platforms such as Apple, Google, Audible, Spotify and much more for more resources, visit fallinginlovewithlearning.com we really appreciate you. Have a wonderful week.