From Incarceration to Inspiration: Transforming Lives Through Literacy | Season 2, Episode 3

In this episode, we sit down with Isaac Lockhart, a former inmate turned violence interventionist and facilitator of parent-child writing workshops. Isaac shares his transformative journey from incarceration to becoming an advocate for literacy, detailing how he helps children and parents improve their literacy skills and strengthen their relationships through collaborative storytelling. His inspiring story underscores the importance of literacy in breaking the cycle of incarceration and opening up new pathways for success.

Key Takeaways:

1. The Statistics: Highlighting the alarming statistics that link poor literacy with higher incarceration rates.
2. Isaac's Journey: Isaac's personal story of losing his passion for learning after a traumatic event and how he found his way back through reading and writing.
3. Importance of Stories: How getting lost in other people's stories can prevent children and adults discover their own potential.
4. Parent-Child Writing Workshops: The transformative power of these workshops in enhancing literacy and strengthening family bonds.
5. Building Literacy and Relationships: How writing together can bridge gaps in communication and understanding between parents and children.
6. Community Impact: Isaac's work in Cleveland, Ohio, particularly in high-illiteracy areas, and how his program is making a difference.

Resources Mentioned:

Book: Heru’s Rising by Isaac Lockhart
Program: "Rising Star" - An eight-week writing workshop designed to enhance literacy and family bonds.
Statistics Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer report on literacy rates in Cleveland, Ohio.

Reach out to Isaac Lockhart on Facebook.

• Literacy improvement
• Parent-child workshops
• Violence intervention
• Isaac Lockhart
• Collaborative storytelling
• Cleveland literacy programs
• Writing workshops for families
• Incarceration and education
• Falling for Learning Podcast

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Tune in to hear Isaac Lockhart's remarkable story and discover how you can help improve literacy in your community. Don’t miss this insightful and inspiring episode!

incarceration, literacy, transformation, education, Isaac Lockhart

Transcript

TD Flenaugh: 0:00

The kids that don't read well or write well end up in jail, at least, that's what the statistics say. There are some exceptions to this, and our next guest is a formerly incarcerated individual who leveraged his experience so that he now is a violence interventionist as well as a facilitator of parent and child writing workshops to get children to learn to write better, to increase their literacy and change that trajectory into incarceration. Hi. Thank you so much for joining the Falling for Learning Podcast. We have this podcast to help parents and caregivers with having the resources, strategies and tools needed to make sure that their children are on track for learning and to stay on track for success. We're so glad we you joined us today. We have Isaac Lockhart today, who is an author, and he's going to share what he does to make sure that children and their parents are learning how to increase literacy and improve their relationships, so that the negative outcomes can turn into more positive outcomes. Thank you so much for joining us. Isaac,

Unknown: 1:19

thank you for having me. Thank you.

TD Flenaugh: 1:23

So we start with with we always ask them what really helped them to love learning when they were kids or whatever point in their life?

Unknown: 1:32

Well, one of the biggest things was, I came from a family of learners, but like a lot of children, I lost that passion. It really happened eighth and 12, when I became like 12 years old, when a traumatic experience with my father dying, but what brought me back to that, like with a lot of children, it's like something happens to him, and all of a sudden those kids that love to go to school, they don't go no more. And I just seen, like so many gaps in the way I thought it's like even when I wanted to speak, and that got me back into reading and writing, because it actually gave me the ability to get my mind to a point where I could accept responsibility, then see that it was a bigger world, because I got so lost in somebody else's story, I couldn't live My own. And that catalyst. I was just seeing like I just kept on not feeling like me, but yet instead, I kept on playing this part. So that's what happened, was I just noticed a imposter. Okay,

TD Flenaugh: 2:30

tell me more about getting lost in someone else's story. Because

Unknown: 2:34

I just you. I was speaking talking, and then I my mind like, Man, why did you even say that? Why did you even go talk to that person? Or why did you even have to put on that that front because, um, it was many times where I seen somebody else get bullied, and what ended up hitting me was, if you stood up for yourself, you wouldn't even have to be in those circumstances to even see that happen. And I just start really just seen I was just lost. And then once I started looking at books and looking at TV, and I found out that my best shows, my best sports, somebody wrote that, somebody came up with it, right? And it seemed like this whole world that I was living in, I was showing where I was from, and somebody else made up that world. And it was amazing once I started really just thinking like I'm living in somebody else's story.

TD Flenaugh: 3:27

So is that like you were buying into stereotypes or just doing things that other people were doing rather than being true to who you were?

Unknown: 3:36

That's it exactly. It's just all mixed together in emotion. Just it was really pain. Um, sometimes you can be so deep in pain that you don't remember that you even got in pain that it takes you a traumatic experience for you to realize to step out the pain. It was just like normal day to me. I didn't realize I was numb to life. And when I started talking to a lot of people that were incarcerated with me, the one thing that they did have in common was it was low region levels, and it was like they didn't understand at a deeper level, at the three Whys you would have asked to most of us didn't understand why we were doing what we're doing. Um, all

TD Flenaugh: 4:17

right, so take me through like your education and then your story that got you to, you know, being able to help others.

Unknown: 4:26

Well, one of the biggest things I basically became, like autodidact. So I started to just everything I could read. I started reading, and once I started reading all those different things, it just, it's like a part of myself really came alive, and I understood the importance of reading, so I started to create programs where you had the parent write stories with their children, because the whole point that I was seeing with inside myself was, if I would have been there for my son and my father wouldn't have died. I honestly. How that transition ended. Me, who had all this time, and these women have all this time, if they could with their children, especially at that that 10 year old to, like 15 year old age. But even even before then, you start writing stories with him, you build up your literacy and you build up your relationships. But at the same time, y'all create a unique story. And if you constantly put in different items of what's your favorite color, what's your favorite word, what's what do you want to be? What did you want to say to me at a time that she was too scared to say, and the parent about times when they felt that way about their parent. So they both create these stories together. And what it what I end up seeing was the parents, once I had them in the in this workshop, the first thing they would say, like, I want to teach my child only this real life situations. I don't want to teach them no fairy tale. And I had back to the reality of I said, how much of your thoughts is really based off of just reality. I said most of the time you're talking about somebody else, did you and your imagination? You're talking about this. You're not talking about real world stuff most of the time. So until, because I was letting them know what happened with me, until I was able to see it, I'm fundamentally most of the time inside my imagination, and if you don't the presence of controlling that imagination, it would keep you stuck in that pain, like I was unnecessarily. And

TD Flenaugh: 6:30

so if you could take us back like before your father died, you were saying you're from a family of learners, like, what was that like before he passed away.

Unknown: 6:41

My family was like the cosmic it was like, high achievers. Everybody went to college. Some went to Ivy League colleges. It was just, and I was one of those kids that was an exceptional athlete, so I didn't have to get to grades. But yet, and still, it's like books were everywhere. And it's just like, it's, it was just full of life, because everybody was coming with different ideas and thoughts, talking about what this person said, and seeing them both working and having businesses once he died, and once I went into like the streets and all those type of things. To a certain extent, you could be right down the street and understand other people are suffering at that level. But at the same time, it was that they didn't see a bigger world because they thought I was, like a genius. But what it was is I actually have people that read books, or you don't see more of the world. I'm like, you ain't know this, or you ain't know that. Like, man, I'll wait. And that's what a lot of things, it's like people are just they could be, right? Because I went to school with these kids, so, yeah, it's like, once you step into that world, you don't understand, because oftentimes a person won't let you know, like, I'm too embarrassed to let you not on. And that's what I was really seeing, like, once I came out of my own shell, that you have to have a sense of learning. You're not doing it just to contrast, okay, I'm better than this person. You're going for a higher version of yourself, and that's what it is to be ultimately human. You're constantly trying to progress beyond the standard of who I am right now.

TD Flenaugh: 8:18

Okay, so you, you're saying your father died. They were both your mom and your dad were both entrepreneurs. You had really a nice home, but then when he passed away, you basically, kind of left that type of lifestyle away. They left it behind, and then went out to, you know, just doing things that people do in the streets, basically, yes, like trauma, you just couldn't process. And you were just doing acting out things that didn't really make any sense, or you couldn't articulate why you were doing it. It

Unknown: 8:52

was both of those things you just said. It was exactly that it's like everything, just you just go, I just went numb to life,

TD Flenaugh: 8:58

right? And then you were saying there was some kind of incident that happened that made you really step back and look at and see how much pain you were in. So what was the catalyst for that? Like, what happened that made you, like, kind of knock you out of what you were doing and really think about changing? Well,

Unknown: 9:17

I turned 25 and I was in a jail cell, and it's like, my whole that thing about your brain maturing at 25 I don't know about it, hit me like a flash, like I was like, I am in here, and I'm gonna do the rest of my life in here. It just hit me, because if you to talk to me, you'd be like, Oh, this is a very articulate child. He's very smart. And just like when I go to any type of place that I speak to young kids in high risk situations. When I speak to them, I say, I know if I ask you what is going on in your life, you'll give me all the right answers, but if I watch you 30 minutes later, you'll be doing everything out looking like man That don't make no sense. And sometimes we mistake just because somebody can say something or speak. Well, that they're actually okay. And that's what happened with me. I got to a point where talking was not enough, and I actually at 25 it just all hit me, because I just really noticed my eye was in an environment that I did not want to be. It just hit me. And what I did was, that's when I started reading. I started like, reflecting on like, why don't I remember certain things that happened? Why did I even do that? And once I seriously start doing that with myself and reading other people that had larger than life experiences, it let me know the world was bigger than Well, I was making inside my head, thought the whole, whole world was just invested around where I thought the way our lingo was, it's a big world out,

TD Flenaugh: 10:47

okay, and so you got released, or before you got released, you were doing these workshops, or working with people. Or this happened once you got out. No, I

Unknown: 10:58

was doing the workshops, um, with people I was incarcerated with, and like I was saying the biggest thing that they kept on saying they want to teach a lot they children real life situations. And I once I explained, they started coming, and it was the first time, once they start writing stories. And every time they write a story, they're supposed to put an emotional word in there, a scientific word in there. So every time they're writing story, they're advancing their vocabulary, and they draw and the reason I have them write it out in certain parts is because, once I start doing studies on it, I found out how big of implicit learning is certain things that you do as a child, if you don't do them, you don't really learn the lessons that you're Gonna need when you older. One thing being geometry, it's the reason a lot of people are not good at math, because all of a sudden, kids stop writing their names and drawing all the time. They just start using computers, and they found out that became a correlation between them not being able to catch on to certain concepts because they didn't understand like them just writing and drawing all the time actually activating the reading circuit in their brain. So that's why I told them to do that. And at the same time, once they start making those stories together and drawing, they say it was the first time they had a conversation with their child where there wasn't those awkward pauses, where they just hanging on the phone like, um, so what you doing? So that was what I was doing in there, and it just made me, once I got out, to pursue it even harder.

TD Flenaugh: 12:25

So you were able to be there when they were visiting with their child, or they're on the phone with their child. Like, how did these workshops happen? We

Unknown: 12:35

did it in the class, and they basically sent it to their child, and then they came back, like, the next week, because I would have it for like, eight weeks, and they were supposed to so it was like an eight week program, and I was doing it with my niece, so I knew it worked, because, um, the thing I was doing with my niece was exactly what I was doing with them. And my niece graduated from college, and she let me know, um, some very, um, deep things, because I constantly wrote her, and sometimes I didn't feel like, right, but something said, be there for her like you wish somebody was there for you. And waiting from high school, she told me I was just involved in her life as much as her parent. It was because I was consciously writing. And when she graduated from college, she just shared with me like, you know, when I was younger, I contemplated suicide, and I knew that, because when we was writing so much, a person's real emotions start to bleed onto the pages character all of a sudden at such a young age, and that became how I knew that the program worked, because it already worked. Um,

TD Flenaugh: 13:38

so hold on, so you knew that she was suicidal based on what, like, what was she writing about? That gave you, that clued you into that,

Unknown: 13:46

because at first the stories were just playing, boom, boom, boom. I kept on writing her. Sometimes she wouldn't write back, but I kept on writing there. And that's what I was telling the people in the program, you keep on writing them, even when they won't write you back. But writing me back, she starts saying the stories were like, real dark, and she was saying things like, um, well, this person end up falling off the cliff, or somebody right here kept on talking bad about him. But this person said, Why am I even here? So you reading this story and this by how stories are made. They are the greatest socializer in the world, but it's also the greatest way that a person is able to express themselves. Um, I know she was talking about herself, so therefore a lot of the stories I started writing her, like I do at the program, is because every unique, every child is unique. Yes, and I Taylor made the stories for her, and that's what the biggest thing that in this program that I have the men understand, the more you understand about your child. You You can love somebody, but if you don't really know him, you can walk around not even liking your own child. So understanding more about their child, what they what's their favorite colors, what. They were scared of what they went through. It made them able to write stories that touched them at a deeper level. And they always came back to me and said, man, it built up my esteem, and it built up my child's thing. And I was like, yes, yes. Okay,

TD Flenaugh: 15:16

so once you got released and you you know, what did you do next with these this program, this writing workshop,

Unknown: 15:23

well, I put it in book form. I put a simple made book where I somewhat went with the way of Marva Collins, and that I'm not using a bunch of baby words. So both of them are going to have chances where they be challenged in the text, but as long as they are continually reading it together, they're both going to grow. And that's what the whole point of it is, is that I made what I call an icebreaker story, where they read this story together, and the child is to start a story, so once they finish it, they continue the story together. Okay, I teach them the program that I made, which is based off of the eight week program. And any person can do it, because I did it with a multi, um, a multitude of children since I've been home and um, it becomes,

TD Flenaugh: 16:17

tell us the name of the book or the name of your program.

Unknown: 16:20

Oh. The name of the program is rising star. The name of the book is haruz, rising um,

TD Flenaugh: 16:26

it'll be in our show note to make sure that you can go out and get it okay. And where did you come up with the name of who rules rising

Unknown: 16:35

because I used a ancient um, ancient Egyptian, or ancient um history of when people were in Egypt. So I used the common source where I know all groups of people came from, which was ancient Kenya in that area, but it's what they call Cush in their time. So I use something ancient history as a backdrop at the same time, I've made sure I put stem in the story, that everything correlates as they come out of the story, with a sense of history, but at the same time, a love for technology and how to build businesses. Okay?

TD Flenaugh: 17:09

And how does this work in your community? So you're saying building businesses and about building up literacy. What do you know about like, what area are you located in? And you know, what is the literacy rate around there?

Unknown: 17:24

Well, I'm located in Cleveland, Ohio, and in the area that I often go to is is called Huff area, and that's that's also in Cleveland, Ohio. It's like a neighborhood and their literacy rate was 90% illiteracy. And I'm talking about for adults. Wait

TD Flenaugh: 17:41

a minute. So over 90% 90% did not know how to read in that area.

Unknown: 17:47

Yes, and when I read it in the Cleveland Frank Plain Dealer, I'm like, This can't be true. So it just kept, kept the fire going.

TD Flenaugh: 17:56

It sounds unbelievable, yeah, until

Unknown: 17:59

you really understand, like, what reading is. Sometimes a person might just think, what reading is, okay, I just read that sign in Spanish, but do you understand it? Can you comprehend it? Yeah, and that's a lot of people get stumped. That's why they say the fourth grade reading level is the reading level for people in high poverty and people that's incarcerated, because they understand. They cannot comprehend. They might be able to read that word, but they don't copy the same way a lot of when they speak about when, like certain black women, they go to the doctor, and why certain type of things are so difficult. Because what I was finding out was they didn't understand what the doctors were saying. They understood the word. And comprehension is such a big part of literacy that most people just separate them as if they're not wanting to say, Yeah,

TD Flenaugh: 18:49

so you're saying people can decode words in English. They can sound them out in Spanish. They might be able to sound them out as a very similar, you know, phonic system, but actually understanding what it means is different, and that is what hope. That's hope. That's what holds people back into like, getting low jobs, they can't get higher paying jobs, and then maybe they get desperate and do things that are illegal. So that's why they're in the prison system.

Unknown: 19:18

Definitely, so, because one of the biggest things I was reading like he was talking about the low level of the gap between words that a child from an affluent neighborhood has and 3 million more words that they have heard. And most children that are that are in poverty, they basically use just 22 of the same words. And that's what you might think. Well, they I heard this child rapping the whole song. It's the difference between you memorizing something and you're creatively able to understand something. And sometimes that's what makes it because we're naturally all brilliant. But one of the greatest things that a human being could do is imitate

TD Flenaugh: 19:56

you may usually hit the nail on the head. I mean, this is a something we. Talk about on the falling for learning podcast, like, if we are stifling children's creativity and their ability to read and learn and be curious, then we are preparing them to be bossed around instead of being the boss. And so it's really good work that you're doing, helping them with the creativity and build on that and then the confidence as well appreciate

Unknown: 20:22

it. Yeah, so I wanted to end with was what you what you showed in what you were speaking about with, right? It's very important that we learn the importance of writing and continue writing and using those type of things that we think is antiquated, but it's not and just really listen and understand. It's not about doing one or the other. It's about doing both.

TD Flenaugh: 20:49

That takes us to we're going to stop right there so we can go to our break all over the United States, 75% of children don't know how to write. Well, add that to the fact that so many people out there are trying to silence the voices of those who have been oppressed and trying to prevent them from telling their story. Who's going to tell your story if your child doesn't know how to write? Well, I have two books to address this issue, the rewrite method and the rewrite method workbook pretend to make sure that parents know what to do, that educators know what to do to get their children to write better and just not write better, but love to write. Make sure that your next generation could tell their story and they won't be silenced. Go to fallingfor.com today to purchase your set. Okay, so where have you been doing your workshops now that you have a book and you have your program, so where do you offer this? Or where have you offered it in the past? And where are you offering it in the future?

Unknown: 21:54

Well, right now I go to juvenile centers, and I basically teach the young men that's in there, basically through those my material, and the second place I do it is, it's a gang intervention place called renounce, denounce. And I teach the whole eight week course there and help those younger kids understand that what they speak about often is somebody else's you're often living in somebody else's story, and just let them see like now, let me help you write your own story and learn other people's stories that might just be stuck away in a book. And once a person really gets that sense of that, that young person, it moves them an inch further. Because every story and everything that everybody goes through, we have things in common, but as many things we have in common, we are uniquely different. So we have to be able to get our thoughts down, write those type of things, really see how I felt yesterday is not the same today. So therefore my story keeps on changing, and I need to actually be aware of what's going on inside of me, and the best way to understand that is is to speak it, but more powerfully is to write it down.

TD Flenaugh: 23:06

Okay, so what I'm thinking I noticed about what you said, is that what I was thinking yesterday is not the same as today, so that makes me think of journaling. So you have them writing narratives. Do you also have them journaling as well?

Unknown: 23:19

Yes, I do, because it's initially, it's it's part of the story writing. But I haven't write the story, but under the story, I have them write like, what's your word for today? What's your feel for the day? Because you want them to be able to understand you need to keep a record on your life, and record on your life. You're more able to actually advance in life, because you can see if you're getting further or you're getting closer towards something, and often times a person, just like that is just what I feel, or that's what I felt yesterday. But I felt this yesterday. I felt this 15 days ago. Now you get to understanding I'm not just what I feel in a day. Now I pay attention to the events. Now I pay attention to myself, and now begin to understand what they meant by goals. Somebody wrote their future, that's all. The goal is that this person actually just wrote their future, rather than being just stuck in a sequential right now,

TD Flenaugh: 24:12

I love what you're saying. You know, you know, many of these kids that you're serving, or the individuals you're serving may have just been living aimlessly, or, you know, just following what the crowd does instead of thinking about themselves, reflecting on why they're doing things, and having them journal helps them reflect on what is going on in their life and what they're thinking about, and again, helps them move forward like you were saying. So this is really good that you have shared this, you know, and you have them doing this practice of reflecting.

Unknown: 24:42

Thank you.

TD Flenaugh: 24:43

So what are some other barriers that you face when I know one of the things you were saying is that they didn't like sometimes the kids, when you were inside, the kids didn't want right back, but you told them to keep writing so that you know you let them know. They're not giving up and to keep progressing with it. What are the barriers? What are some barriers, as you are doing the programs now that you have to kind of navigate and help your participants with it's

Unknown: 25:13

just one of the it's keeping the parents focused on what's the main objective? Because oftentimes we've been brought up, brought up in a culture where everything's supposed to happen right now. Like, I tell them, like the most important thing is, when you think about your child and you're saying, well, they're not getting these good grades, I say, okay, so they're getting DS again, CS. And I said, What do you think a F life look like in the future, but what do you think a D life look like? Okay, that life is gonna fall on you now. You might think, I tell them, I understand that you going through a lot of things, but it's gonna fall on you even harder than what it is right now. And if you will, just stick with them right now, you're being a friend to not just their future self, but but your future self. So that's one of the biggest beliefs that I just try to let them so just stop trying to hit a home run and think they go. You can say one like snazzy line, and they going to just magically change. It's not going to happen.

TD Flenaugh: 26:20

So you're telling them to have patience, that they're not going to change right away. And I just thought it was interesting that you're bringing up like, stick with them, but don't the parents usually stick with them. Or what are some things that they do instead of stick with them, or that send a negative message to their kids that you're trying to avoid them from doing or prevent them from doing. Well,

Unknown: 26:42

two of the things is how people speak. And they speak unconsciously. They might say words like, that's stupid. Now, from basically like seven ON and under, children are just like a recorder. They might seem like, oh, they Yes, yes, they are brilliant. They're bright, but they're recording those things down into their subconscious, and what you're saying to them is oftentimes the problem with dealing with the parent, the parent has had negative experiences also. So I understand that when I'm talking to this parent, I'm still talking to the child inside of them too. So I'm just letting letting them understand you have to be there, like I said with my niece, like you wish somebody was there for you. And you need to, first of all, understand your language. And the second thing is, you need to talk to them as adults. And the third thing is make sure that you are consistent in what you do, but have reading be a very powerful point that you read them lessons of people in their same experience that have overcome

TD Flenaugh: 27:45

excellent Okay, so I really hear what you're saying, like, make sure that even though you know the parents are there physically, but you know, trying to change this narrative of where we're going to call our kids stupid, or say you're being stupid saying negative things to them, when you know, just because we work with them once or twice, it doesn't mean that everything is going to change, because we've worked with them once or twice on this act, you know, on this program, but thinking how we could talk to them more positively, speak more life into them. And, you know, I think that that's really important. Because, yes, you know the parents, most parents are there, you know, and stick around, but some of the things that they're saying were really damaging, and they don't realize it, because, again, they may have been told those same things, right, exactly,

Unknown: 28:32

and that becomes like one of the initial things when I, when I put together the program, was the parent and the child are equally as important. Now it I did put together the program in the sense of that a child can do without their parent, but how everything is situated. The parent and child are equally as important. When a parent is properly motivated, they see their child as the greatest thing to live for, and to make sure that those things and a child looks at their parent as the second thing closest to God. So times, when those children are asking us, why, at that, that age, you know, saying what they want to know. They they see my my Mommy put her hands in some hot waters, and they looking at it like, you a superhero, but, but we're not looking at it like I like, do 15? Push Ups. My son only could do three. He looking at me like, Man, how you getting so that's the point where you are supposed to put your positive voice in, because they going to carry that voice for for the rest of their life. And this become one of the biggest things. I have to constantly applaud the parents. That's part of my program that you want to be voice that when they're hearing something, it's telling them what they can do, and it has reasoning. It has won't reason. You just don't want to give them no no, no, no, pop stories, no. You want them to have reasoning. And if you even when you don't feel it inside your. Self understand you are not your feelings, your feelings, and told you a lot, and that's why I keep on telling them you can get so lost in somebody else's story. This might be your old self that you lost in, and you're talking to your child through the old version of yourself. And that's why people understand the power of story. It's the greatest socializer there is, and if they are aware of that, then they can make life into the story that that they want, because it's going to be challenges. You just don't want to be the challenge in the role that you're building with the words in your child's mind.

TD Flenaugh: 30:36

Okay, well, I really, really think you're doing such a great service for the people in your area. And of course, it gets spread further, you know, to really get the message out to people who are having these generational issues, right? And that's really what you're speaking to. So where can people find you? Well,

Unknown: 30:56

Basically, I'm new to all tech, so they can find me on Facebook as Isaac Lockhart, and basically I'm on Instagram, but basically on Facebook, anybody that reached out to me, I would definitely reach back out to, okay,

TD Flenaugh: 31:13

and any last things that you want, like takeaways you want to give to someone who's listening, who's maybe having this challenge with their kids, what can you say to them? One

Unknown: 31:25

of the most difficult things is to realize that, yes, you're feeling overwhelmed a lot of time, and your life is going in somebody wasn't there like you wish somebody was there for you, and that's why you'd be there for your child. And what it does is it actually heals and liberates not just you, but it liberates the child and the child that's inside of you that you can find a parent, not just to your child, but a parent to yourself.

TD Flenaugh: 31:52

Wonderful. We're going to leave it there. We appreciate you for joining us today. Have a great week. Thanks again for supporting the Falling for Learning Podcast. New Episodes go live every Saturday at 5pm you can watch us on youtube.com, at falling for learning or listen on all major podcast platforms, such as Apple, Google, Audible, Spotify and much more for more resources, visit falling in love with learning.com we really appreciate you. Have a wonderful week. You.